A Great Smoking Debate

Yesterday my friend Kelly down in NC posted a news item about a sad, sad event in which a trailer with nine thoroughbred horses traveling on I-95 caught fire, none of the horses were saved. The article noted "Troopers said a discarded cigarette from a passing vehicle likely flew into one of the partially open stalls, setting fire to the hay, troopers said."
Well, that set off a storm of responses that led to a great smoking debate, and of course because I don't know to keep my mouth - or keyboard - shut, got into the thick of it. Some of the postings are below, there were some others in between.
Right now I'm trying to find out if she's all right, as she lives in the path of the storms that went through yesterday.

Kelly's first post: how aweful!!! Smokers DO NOT discard your cigarettes out the window when driving down the road! Someone did just that last nite and inadvertantly killed 6 thoroughbred on I95!!!!

Billy: For years I've smoked, and if I want to smoke in my car I will, let the horses fend for themselves. They shouldn't have been driving anyway
Plus people who put out butts in their car are more likely to set the inside of the car on fire then people who toss them out are likely to start a fire period. So would you rather the 1 in a million chance that my cigarette flying out the window will start a fire, or the one in a hundred chance that I light up the inside of my car like a little piece of hell on wheels, and go flying 90mph at other cars?

Kelly: your the smoker so let it be your car that catches fire, and your insurance to pay the additional damages. and I think your #'s are a little backwards, your more apt to start a fire outside your car then in.

Me: I doubt it's a 1 in a million chance, many wild fires are started by tossed cigarettes. Kelly what's the full story on this? Think the key words here are 'put the cigarette out'-the smoker is more apt to actually put it out if discarding in the car, as opposed to just tossing the still lit butt out the window. And why should other people have to deal with your noxious litter? It's yours, keep it yours. I don't drop my toilet paper on your lawn.

Me: That is truly terrible! And to your smoker friend I say, suppose it had fallen into the open window of another car, and killed a family, that would be their fault for driving next to you, I suppose? Smokers are by and large incredibly thoughtless, I have observed, as long as they can indulge themselves they don't care about results - and I realize not all are, but so many that I lump them all together. This is just too sad.

Me: Yeah, there are documented cases of grass/brush/wild fires being tracked back to a cigarette as the point of origin. In this particular case the point of origin is uncertain, although it is probably a better guess that it might have been a... cigarette from a vehicle, than oh, say perhaps the horse playing with a Bic. But yes, there are cases of cigarettes thrown from moving vehicles starting fires in the grass along the road, I have seen it myowndamnself. When the big red trucks with the flashing lights are in front of your house and the guys in the funny coats are putting the wet stuff on the red stuff, I hope you can still say you can throw a cigarette butt into the grass out back with no flaming results.

Billy: lol, prove it, show me a documented case of a cigarette butt being 100% certain the cause of a roadside fire. it's always speculation, and usually proven to be false. you're like one of those people who think it's bad to smoke around gasoline, even though it is impossible to ignite it with a cigarette

Me: Well, Bill, few things in the world are 100% certain, but when investigators find the filter of a cigarette at the point of origin of a fire, it's a high percentage indication that's the cause. As far as what I believe, don't ass-u-me - I do indeed know several things about cigarettes and fires, one of them being that it is not the gasoline that burns, it is the fumes that ignite, and do not actually burn, they explode, causing things in close proximity to burn. I am glad that you have so far not had bad experiences caused by your somewhat daring attitude towards cigarettes and fire origins, and hope that continues, for both your sake and that of others around you who would be affected if at some time your beliefs are proved wrong.

Peter: "Kelly, I have read the story and although very tragic indeed, it does say likely and not that it's positively from some other driver. For all anybody knows, it could be the driver of the the truck himself OR MAYBE even the guy in back FELL ASLEEP with a cigarette. Yes, I still smoke, and can I say i've never flicked one out the window of a car, absolutely not. Can I say that I have not for years and don't now, ABSOLUTELY. I remember that you used to smoke and if you tell me that you've never flicked one out the window of a car, i'd have a very hard time believing that. Sorry, but just how it is. And to your friend that realizes that all smokers are not alike that but STILL lumps them all together I say, I live by the beach now and when i walk on the beach I DO constantly pick up other peoples butts on the beach as they take many years to bio-degrade. Can you say that you clean them up when you see them? I highly doubt it. But then you'll tell me you're not going to clean up after anybody who smokes. Non-smokers put themselves on such a high pedestal I sometimes just find it so hard to believe. you act like just because they smoke, it gives you the right to classify them in any way you wish. Even if you've never smoked in your life, i'm sure there is some kind of dirt that could be dug up on you too. Everybody has some somewhere. It's just that it's easier for you to do because smoking is not something that's hid for no-one to see. I say, just be glad that ember hit your face and not the bedding or you wouldn't be here today to trash people who smoke that you don't even know. Sorry for the rant but some things on here are very hard NOT to respond to."

Me: Geez, Kelly, I bet you didn’t know you were going to start a whole debate! Peter, you are an exception. Sure, there’s ‘dirt’ that can be dug up on me, some of it being that I don’t always pick up other people’s litter such as butts on the beach (ps I hope you wear gloves or cover your hands somehow when you do that). And I for sure don’t belong on a pedestal. However, after a lifetime of being around smokers, some of the thoughtless things I and probably many other non-smokers have been subject to (without getting in to the whole second hand smoke thing, and some before the new laws abolished smoking indoors in so many places) include: moving the ashtray so that the smoke from the cigarette isn’t floating into their face – but it is going right into mine; always having to sit in the smoking section to sit in non-smoking; lighting up when they are done eating whether others are or not; having my clothes, hair, self smelling like used ashtrays, having smoke bother my eyes; now smokers have to do it, standing one step away from the door, so that I have to walk around them to get inside; putting out smoldering butts dropped where they might start a fire; putting out fires in ash trays and butt cans and on the ground caused by smoldering butts ….. and so on. Yes, these are little things that could be called petty, but not to the person constantly putting up with them. Turn around the irritation you might feel about the fact that now you can’t smoke every place you’d like to, maybe. And maybe you never do any of these or other annoying things with your cigarettes/smoking, and yes there are no doubt other smokers who don’t or didn’t do these things, but these are things that some if not most/all of the rest of us have dealt with.
Tossing still lit butts out the car windows, whether done by a passerby or the people in the truck in this instance (although what difference that makes, I’m not sure, the result was sadly the same) does cause fires, which lead to loss of property and more – if it’s a lucky case just some grass and trees lost, but all too often it’s people’s homes, and even lives. Firefighters put their lives on the line every day to extinguish fires caused by careless smoking. You are an exception if you always police your own butts, but the reason smokers get lumped together is the same as any other group taking the heat for the way the majority of them are – the majority of smokers are not the way you are.
Sorry Kelly – and I still think it’s sadder than sad that the horses were lost due to someone’s carelessness and not caring.